Comments about this vehicle

Author	Message
Nightrider ◊ 2011-06-13 11:05	Horch-901?
3loader ◊ 2011-06-13 16:04
Wicio ◊ 2011-06-13 22:23	Yes,I think so
Nightrider ◊ 2011-06-13 23:01	I just came to thought...maybe we should list 3rd Reich as model origin?
DynaMike ◊ 2011-06-13 23:10	We've discussed this several times before... I'm in favour of that (not because of my political ideas of course, but because of historical accuracy). But it is somehow a difficult step to make, which I can understand very well.
Nightrider ◊ 2011-06-13 23:15	We can use bad quality icon to make swastika indistinguishable.
Ford_Guy ◊ 2011-06-13 23:19	I don't see a problem with using the 3rd Reich flag. It was the official flag of Germany at the time after all.
chicomarx ◊ 2011-06-13 23:48	Tönz already made these flags, see forum discussion: http://forum.imcdb.org/forum_topic-5754-37687.html#p37687 Toenz wrote Made a few historical flags in the famfamfam style: Austria-Hungary (1869-1918) German Empire (1871-1918) Nazi Germany (1933-1945) Kingdom of Italy (1861-1946) -- Last edit: 2011-06-13 23:52:26
Nightrider ◊ 2011-06-14 00:02	How about Russian Empire? /vehicles_make-Russo-Balt.html
chicomarx ◊ 2011-06-14 17:16	Да, is not correct in those cases.
antp ◊ 2011-06-15 11:02	What is not correct? The colors are the same For the German/Italian flags, I'll include them later, automatically used instead of the current one if the date of the vehicle is set to these years. Nightrider wrote We can use bad quality icon to make swastika indistinguishable. That would be ridiculous. -- Last edit: 2011-06-15 11:22:19
chicomarx ◊ 2011-06-15 15:33	antp wrote What is not correct? The colors are the same It's exactly the same as the modern flag?? Sorry about that, I spent all my time looking up "Да".
antp ◊ 2011-06-15 15:52	It seems that it is: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Russia
3loader ◊ 2011-06-15 16:27	If we using here one flag for Czech Republic and Czechoslovakia, i think it would be right to use one flag for Russian Empire and Russia. About Nazi Germany flag it would be logically to use it for vehicles of that period. Noticing that most of them is miltary which was made for war planned by Hitler. But theres another question: what surpose to do with "made for"? I mean all those vehicles like Škoda G-13, Laffly's which was made for wermacht. -- Last edit: 2011-06-15 16:53:26
antp ◊ 2011-06-15 17:22	"Made for" means "special version with another name or small changes due to another target market", for the military vehicles I do not think it really applies
3loader ◊ 2011-06-15 17:33	Right. BTW i can understand why Nightrider ask about another flag for Russian Empire. But its too few vehicles made before revolution.
Nightrider ◊ 2011-06-15 18:03	I meant this one. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Romanov_Flag.svg It had been used as a de-facto flag to represent Russia since the end of the 17th century, despite white-blue-red one was officialized in late 19th century. And it helps to differentiate different states.
3loader ◊ 2011-06-15 20:55	Actually it would be great.
Ingo ◊ 2011-06-15 21:11	antp wrote For the German/Italian flags, I'll include them later, automatically used instead of the current one if the date of the vehicle is set to these years. I'm fully agreeing with DynaMike For sure it would be historical and factual correct, because during some periods some national colours were particulary forbidden. As today the swastica-flag. If you today in Germany show anything containing a swastica, in the public, you will be prosecuted. No kidding, this specific law has caused in 1978 a discussion about this scale model: http://shop.blickpunkt-crimmitschau.de/picture/20100819Wiking11.jpg Otherwise: to install the correct German flag for specific cars, will cause large discussions without any chance of exact allocations What's about the DKW F8 for example? About models from 1932/33? About Austrian cars from 1938 to 1945? About any German vehicles between 1945 and 1949? About DDR-vehicles from the 1950ies? As you can read here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_Germany the DDR-flag was introduced in 1959. Before that, they've used the same black-red-gold flag, too (and also the D nationality sticker on cars. The DDR-plate came in 1973). But personally I'm strictly against the listing of DDR-stuff from the 50ies with the real German flag!
Ingo ◊ 2011-06-15 21:21	3loader wrote About Nazi Germany flag it would be logically to use it for vehicles of that period. Noticing that most of them is miltary which was made for war planned by Hitler. Naah, this is not correct. Until 1940/41 the German car-industry was very actice in constructing any kind of vehicles, mainly indeed civil ones. Hitler was very interested in the motorization of the German peoples and have supported it a lot. And not everything was planned for the upcoming war, as for example two-stroke-powered cars and smaller motorbikes. Nothing, the Reichswehr, later the Wehrmacht or the SS were interested in. And sure, as in the decades before and after, the German industry, especially the automobile-industry, was very focussed on the export. This wasn't any different in the Nazi-times.
3loader ◊ 2011-06-15 21:24	Yes i know. I mean at least military vehicles could be listed as 3rd Reich's. And civil products was made also by labor of camps prisoners. -- Last edit: 2011-06-15 21:28:35
Ingo ◊ 2011-06-15 21:28	Anyways, even own citizens doesn't know enough, not even TV-makers Link to "www.welt.de" It happens more often, that the German and the Belgian flags were mixed up When he will be the next time in our village, I'll make a photo of the "Real, one and only Cheese-specialist from Holland" (his own advertising). He's a Dutch guy - but all the flags on his vending trailer are French -- Last edit: 2011-06-15 21:35:18
3loader ◊ 2011-06-15 21:30	Link to "www.welt.de" That surpose to be a German flag? -- Last edit: 2011-06-15 21:30:37
Ingo ◊ 2011-06-15 21:32	3loader wrote Yes i know. I mean at least military vehicles could be listed as 3rd Reich's. And civil products was made also by labor of camps prisoners. a) the civil, too. Just due the historical fact, that the black-red-gold colours are absolutely forbidden between 1933 and 1945. b) not in the 30ies. It started in wartimes. To be precise, in 1942: Link to "de.wikipedia.org"
Ingo ◊ 2011-06-15 21:34	3loader wrote Link to "www.welt.de" That surpose to be a German flag? Yes. Handcolored by a moroon shortly before the program. It was a Russian flag. -- Last edit: 2011-06-15 21:34:32
3loader ◊ 2011-06-15 21:37	In Russia i can often see inverted flag Red-Blue-White, like Serbian. Some people still not know how it should be right. Even in goverment.
dsl ◊ 2011-06-15 21:40	It's not my nationalism under discussion, but as an observer these "refinements" seem unlikely to really make imcdb a better database. ingo points out a lot of practical issues which look likely to cause continual problems and arguments. If what we've got works well for all users, then don't change it unless there is a determined outcry. And where do you stop the process once it's started? Should UK be split into England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland production? Yes - I'd like to see Imps with a Scottish flag, but allocating later Avengers and Hunters would be "fun" - ditto Leyland buses and lorries. If anyone is unhappy that I'm equating the significance of UK nationalism with phases of 20th century fascism, the point is only made to illustrate the question of whether such changes are actual improvements which justify the likely problems.
Ingo ◊ 2011-06-15 21:51	@dsl: this is the problem. We are so picky with every details about any vehicle here, much more than with historical facts. As I've pointed out, still months ago, the actual German flag, assigned to vehicles from 1933 to 1945, is definetely irregular! Sames goes for pre-1919 vehicles, as there these colours were forbidden, too Otherwise: in view of the vehicles and their specific history, a correct assignment will be impossible in many cases.
Ingo ◊ 2011-06-15 21:56	dsl wrote Should UK be split into England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland production? This is annother neverending and never completey solvable story. This "orign ...", "made in ...", "made for ..." complex. As you can see it here every day for new, it's never to resolve, that a) everyone is satisfied b) all historical/political facts are considered. Sure, always very interesting to track the intentions and opinions of the many different members here - but absolutely correct solutions are impossible.
DynaMike ◊ 2011-06-15 22:07	We do use different flags for USSR vs Russia, Ukraine, Latvia etc., and Yugoslavia vs different 'new' countries. Indeed we'll meet some troubles and strange things (e.g. early Bugattis with the flag of the German empire...) but here, as elsewhere, we can go for 'first possibility' or 'most probable possibility'.
Gamer ◊ 2015-02-05 20:17	3loader wrote In Russia i can often see inverted flag Red-Blue-White, like Serbian. Some people still not know how it should be right. Even in goverment. When drawing the Russian flag, I often get confused. I know the white is at the top, but I never know, does red or blue come after it? Mostly I draw red until I see how it clashes, erase and change to blue. -- Last edit: 2015-02-05 20:18:11
Ingo ◊ 2015-02-05 20:29	Gamer wrote When drawing the Russian flag, I often get confused. I know the white is at the top, but I never know, does red or blue come after it? Mostly I draw red until I see how it clashes, erase and change to blue. Well, even the makers of the most reputable German TV-news have some problems: Link to "img.welt.de" Later they said, that someone couldn't find a German flag in the database, so he took a Russian flag and repainted it by CGI...

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Horch 901

Horch 901 in Небесный тихоход (The Sky Slow-Mover), Movie, 1945

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