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1939 Fordson Estate Car [E83W]

1939 Fordson Estate Car [E83W] in Treasure at the Mill, Movie, 1957

Class: Cars, Wagon — Model origin:

1939 Fordson Estate Car [E83W]

00:12:32 Minor action vehicle or used in only a short scene

Comments about this vehicle

Author	Message
dsl ◊ 2021-02-01 18:49	BDY 565 = Hastings, 1939.
Lowlander ◊ 2021-02-01 19:48	Fordson Thames E83W https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fordson_E83W
johnfromstaffs ◊ 2021-02-01 20:08	Fordson E83W 10cwt van. The “Thames” name was a postwar change, and does not appear with “Fordson”, either one or the other. It would not be applicable here if the number plate is 1939 and matches the van. However, the shape of the rear wings shown here was not introduced until 1946, and the Thames name about 1948 when small badges saying “A Ford Product” appeared on the bonnet sides. The other problem is that there is only one starting handle hole through the grille, which would suggest a prewar grille at least. Another difficulty is the windows in the van sides, is it a professional job or amateur? So it may be a bit of a mongrel. -- Last edit: 2021-02-01 20:37:34
Sunbar ◊ 2021-02-08 15:00	A lot of the earler discussions here but the exact timing of the post-war Fordson period between 1945 and 1948 is less certain. Our convention to date is to use the 'Thames' as vehicle make, with an introduction date after 1951 in conjunction with the 'Ford Product' bonnet side flash. However 'Thames' badging alone without 'Fordson' from August 1952, is likely from previous comments, but more difficult to apply. Other early features. March 1945 adverts seen with the beaded edge on front wings. During or prior to 1946, the quick drop windows with chrome plated finger grips were introduced. From on or before 1948, grille with twin starting handle holes to accommodate LHD and RHD. Flared rear wing possibly 1947 (old rear wings still used in late 1946). Single starting handle hole 1938-1947. Flared rearwheel arch after 1947. Post war headlamps with flatter lenses. I'm concerned that the pull-down chromed handles on the door glasses are not visible; I would think they would be seen. So either 1947 with an earlier registration or possibly a repaired, 1938 van with the post-war body parts or front and rear wings? Regarding the registration, could it apply to a wartime 1944 or 1945 vehicle perhaps? -- Last edit: 2021-02-08 15:06:05
dsl ◊ 2021-02-08 15:27	BDY plate series ran from July 1938 to Feb 1945, with Glass's listing the 1939 batch as 300 to 759, so 565 likely to be mid-year before WW2 start?? All 1942+ BDY plates were in the 900s. BOY was Croydon, Feb-May 36.
johnfromstaffs ◊ 2021-02-08 16:33	One more thing..... If our date is correct the van would have been about 18 years old at the time of filming. Which is more believable, an 18 year old Fordson van, or an 18 year old numberplate? -- Last edit: 2021-02-08 16:37:33
johnfromstaffs ◊ 2021-02-08 16:57	Why the starting handle hole has to be offset.
Sunbar ◊ 2021-02-08 17:08	1938 (registration) or 1947 (single-hole grille and rear wings)? Then 1938 should stand I guess as the earliest possible date. If it did not have the wind-up windows, rather than pull-up types I would be happy with 1947. A 1938 van with newer body parts (wings and rear panels?) that could have been replaced at the time the non-standard windows were added in the late 1940s to make a functional estate car from a well used van, when new cars were largely required for export?
johnfromstaffs ◊ 2021-02-08 17:21	Your mention of the supply position on new vehicles in the immediate post war years makes the last option seem credible. Perhaps they even put a new body on one of the old vans to get more life out of the chassis.
johnfromstaffs ◊ 2021-02-08 17:27	dsl wrote BOY was Croydon, Feb-May 36. That would have been on a Brooke Bond Trojan van. -- Last edit: 2021-02-08 17:41:33
dsl ◊ 2021-02-08 18:05	One odd thing in this film which receives no comment or explanation is the driver - the kid's father - only has one leg, presumably a WW2 legacy. They seem a well-off family who buy the mill complex as part of the plotline, to live in the house and plan to convert the mill into an artist's studio; they arrive with a menagerie of pets, and both girls have their own ponies. According to the end credits they are a genuine family of five, not a bunch of actors thrown together. All this fascinating social comment leads to the idea that the van is specially adapted for the dad, which may have involved reconditioning an older example into something purpose-built for family use.
johnfromstaffs ◊ 2021-02-08 18:24	How do you drive a vehicle with a normal transmission with one leg? Push the the clutch down with a crutch? I have experience of trying to drive a Morris Minor 1000 with only one working leg, it's not easy.
Baube ◊ 2021-02-08 18:49	johnfromstaffs wrote How do you drive a vehicle with a normal transmission with one leg? probably as well as the one i witness once, doing a u-turn with a manual transmission car while speaking on his cell phone .. -- Last edit: 2021-02-08 18:49:47
johnfromstaffs ◊ 2021-02-08 19:00	I mean hill starts, one foot on throttle, one on clutch, handbrake under the dash, gear lever on the floor, awkward. There were no automatic roll back brakes on a Fordson van built in 1938. The easiest measure would be a hand throttle operable by the fingers while still holding the wheel. You might then be able to cope. -- Last edit: 2021-02-08 19:09:06
Sunbar ◊ 2021-02-09 12:27	More about Treasure at the Mill and the father, played by Harry Pettit, here https://bearalley.blogspot.com/2008/08/harry-pettit.html "In the movie, a photograph of Harry Pettit in a Royal Navy uniform, juxtaposed with a picture of a boat at sea, was introduced to offer some explanation for his missing leg. In fact, Pettit did not serve during the war as he had lost his leg many years earlier in an accident...This did not prevent him from living an amazingly active life and the family travelled around Europe in the early 1950s, an unusual activity so soon after the war." On the subject of hand controls for disabled drivers in the 1950s or 1960s I seem to remember adverts in the classified sections of some magazines for hand-throttle controls under the steering wheel plus perhaps a lever operated clutch? Although it doesn't say how they travelled around Europe perhaps the modified van was more widely travelled than just around southern England. Harry Pettit was a children's book illustrator and watercolourist. -- Last edit: 2021-02-09 13:16:51
johnfromstaffs ◊ 2021-02-09 12:48	What a splendid story. Touring Europe in a Fordson with a top speed of 35mph must have required patience!

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